Wow, Ryan Braun 50 game suspension

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gregburbidge
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[piperspitt]

Fielder has less reason to return after Braun tests positive for PEDs. He is appealing but a 50 game suspension awaits if he loses. Very disappointing.

[JDub]

I have a hard time believing ANY younger player in the league would be dumb enough to KNOWINGLY take any PED. Braun really doesn't seem like someone who would. He says the results are "BS" and supposedly they have a way to prove he didn't do anything knowingly. I guess he took a second test that was negative, but ESPN said you can take another test an hour later and it could be negative, not sure how that works. Unless it was a faulty test, which is probably doubtful, he will probably get suspended either way even if he didn't take something on purpose because there is no way to prove it. I would like to know all the details but at least he is guilty of being stupid for probably taking something that had something he didn't know what was in it. When your a pro you got to be smart about the crap you take. Oh well now he will have to live with the punishment and the possibly unjustified criticism all because he was a moron.

[piperspitt]

I really like Braun and this is terrible for him. You are right JDub, he will be lumped in with Manny, Rodriguez, Palmeiro, McGwire, Clemens, and Bonds with criticism.  An easy target for hecklers forever now, even if he wins the appeal. Honestly I feel all of these players should get into the HoF because they played when the majority were juicing. Braun will be tarnished worse because he will be thought of as dirty in a clean era. I really feel bad for Brewer fans, because they are so close before this happens.

[piperspitt]

Another thing that bothers me in this. This is a breech of confidentiality. Whoever leaked this should be investigated and fired. ESPN also acted unethically by reporting this until the appeal is settled. In any other walk of life Braun could sue for a HIPPA violation. If Braun wins the appeal I hope ESPN gets blasted.

[shesgotlegs]

This comes from a mlb.com columnist : http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111211&content_id=26145472&vkey=news_mil&c_id=mil

This part really gets me thinking that Braun is innocent in this "The truth will prevail; I really feel good about that," the source told the newspaper. "It just stinks that this got out before the appeal process is finished. Initial positive tests have been overturned before, proving the player is innocent, and nobody ever knows."

So I agree with Piperspitt that whoever leaked this should be fired.  We'll see when all is said and done.

[Theren]

My issue isn't just the fact that he immediately took a second test and it came out negative and that this was leaked before the process was finished. Part of my problem with it is that sources have said that on top of all that the chemical he tested positive for and was suspended for wasn't even a performance enhancing drug. Also it is possible that they didn't take in to account other things that he is may be taking certain forms of medicine for that could show up as banned substances. I ran into the same issue with a teammate when we were playing football in school. The week of the state championship we were going to be stripped of all our wins and banned from playoffs the next year because he tested positive even though he had the paperwork from the doctor saying he had to take that form of steroid twice a year for severe asthma. Ultimately enough people stepped forward that they had to acknowledge the paperwork and it is entirely possible it is something similar for him and the person in charge of this year's test dropped the ball on paperwork.

[JDub]

Just a rumor right now but could this be considered “highly unusual circumstances”?

http://www.throughthefencebaseball.com/ryan-braun-rumors-are-swirling-failed-test-could-be-linked-to-std-herpes/15191/#

[JDub]

Just a rumor right now but could this be considered “highly unusual circumstances”?

http://www.throughthefencebaseball.com/ryan-braun-rumors-are-swirling-failed-test-could-be-linked-to-std-herpes/15191/#

More then a rumor now.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111219&content_id=26195328&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

It's still not MLB saying anything but the fact that this story is even on MLB.com is saying a lot. It's not just crazy internet rumors.

[piperspitt]

Well they can't comment on something that was supposed to be confidential. I feel really bad for Braun because many people will only remember the accusation and not the reality. The bleachers in Wrigley will be brutal. I hope whoever leaked this gets what was coming to them, and shame on the media for misreporting information that they had no business reporting before it was official. I hope Braun goes back to back MVP to shut this story down for good.

[JDub]

I think MLB is trying to leak out this info without officially saying anything because they were criticized just as much a Braun. I don't blame ESPN for reporting the story but make sure you have good info first because most of it wasn't accurate anyways (tested for a banned substance not a PED, that's only a 25 game suspension instead of 50, and people have had initial positive tests overturned). I'm sick at some of the trash that I have read or seen on ESPN about it. "Oh his lawyers are going to find every loophole to get out of this. He should take his own advice and just tell the truth." And your right the worst part is now in the minds of a lot of people his career is tainted and people will still think of him as some steroid user who just beat the system. And everyone is going to know he has some STD on top of it.

[shesgotlegs]

Well they can't comment on something that was supposed to be confidential. I feel really bad for Braun because many people will only remember the accusation and not the reality. The bleachers in Wrigley will be brutal. I hope whoever leaked this gets what was coming to them, and shame on the media for misreporting information that they had no business reporting before it was official. I hope Braun goes back to back MVP to shut this story down for good.

I'm not sure what would be worse for the guy.  Getting heckled by opposing fans for using PEDs or getting heckled for having an STD. 

[Queensryche]

Well they can't comment on something that was supposed to be confidential. I feel really bad for Braun because many people will only remember the accusation and not the reality. The bleachers in Wrigley will be brutal. I hope whoever leaked this gets what was coming to them, and shame on the media for misreporting information that they had no business reporting before it was official. I hope Braun goes back to back MVP to shut this story down for good.

I'm not sure what would be worse for the guy.  Getting heckled by opposing fans for using PEDs or getting heckled for having an STD. 

I should've mentioned earlier:

He may not have even had an STD. Herpes medication has multiple uses. It's also effective against intestinal infections and other ailments.

[shesgotlegs]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/conversations/_/id/7608360/ryan-braun-wins-appeal-50-game-suspension

Whoo!

[piperspitt]

Good news for everybody except those baseballs that are gonna get crushed!

[shesgotlegs]

Just watched Braun's press conference where he shut down two big rumors:  He does not have an std and he does not have any other medical issue.  He stated over and over he is innocent and did not take anything.  He is also considering his legal options when is comes to confidentiality being breached and the system of the drug testing being breached. 

[Queensryche]

Forgive me for being cynical.......

But from what I've read about the story, it seems to me what's being said is that Braun's suspension was overturned on a legal technicality as opposed to clear and convincing evidence that the test was faulty.

I just don't understand why Braun is saying he's been exonerated when to me it's still a case of "he may have or may not have". I don't want to believe he took anything illegal. Every instance of a big-name player testing positive does damage to the game of baseball. But things are still murky to the point that I can't say it's a closed case like Braun and Aaron Rodgers are. There's still a lot of unanswered questions.

[JDub]

Its always going to look that way because there is no doubt that there was a positive test. BUT the problem is is how do we know that this sample that just so happened to sit in some guys apartment for 44 hours was really Brauns or wasn't tampered with? If Braun never really did take anything (let's assume for this argument he didn't) what is he suppose to say or do? How is he suppose to prove this test that wasn't really his? He told MLB he would take a DNA test to prove it wasn't his and MLB said no. Because the only way they know who's test it is is from the numbers on the label of the sample that the collector puts on it. They are also the only ones who know who's test is who's because after FedEx gets it and while its being tested at the lab(s) they don't know who's sample it is. They also have extra labels, containers, ect so who knows if he didn't have some guy he knows from the gym piss in a cup and put a label from Braun on it. Who knows if he didn't mis- label it and it was another Brewer? I don't know if he did or didn't take anything but the fact that the test that had the highest level of testosterone ever taken by MLB (three times more then any other positive test) basically went unaccounted for  over the weekend should send up some red flags no matter who's test it was. And the fact that Braun said they have weight, speeds on the base pads, etc, etc all recorded since his rookie year and everything has been constant it seems a bit funny that the guy who had the highest level of testosterone EVER never put on any weight, power, had a spike in stats, etc, etc.

[shesgotlegs]

http://www.todaystmj4.com/multimedia/videos/?bctid=1472070351001

Here.  Here's the story from the horse's mouth.  I find the man to be convincing.


and pt2, the Q & A of the press conference http://www.todaystmj4.com/multimedia/videos/?bctid=1472148524001

[Queensryche]

I get the arguments and everything. And I wasn't trying to imply Braun did or didn't do it. It's just that there's so many unanswered questions that it's not resolved in my mind.

Though to be fair, I'll probably never get the answers I want. I'm gonna just move on.

I DO expect MLB to change their testing policy to prevent something like this, given their reaction.

And despite this, next time I see the Brewers at The Bank, I will be chanting "PEN-I-CIL-LIN!" when Braun comes up to bat 

(The last sentence is a joke and meant in good fun. Don't take it as an insult.)

[BigPimpin]

Here's a thought for the conspiracy theory nuts...

Not that it DID affect anything...the Tigers would have given him big money once they lost Victor Martinez...but if Prince Fielder was seriously considering the Brewers to return...how much do you think this affected him?

I mean it's not like the Brewers are chopped liver next year.  Braun and Fielder are still a very good 1-2 punch, and they still have one of the best pitching staffs in their division, if not the best.  None of the other teams in their division are going to be in a position to do all that well...the Cards lost Pujols, the Cubs and Astros are a hot mess, and the Pirates likely aren't there yet, and I have no idea if I buy the Reds or not based on their up and down last two years...I mean Votto is legit, and Phillips is good, but the teams been inconsistent.  I think, at least this year, the NL Central was up for grabs between whomever of the Brewers/Reds/Cards could pull it together quickest.  And while there's rumors of the Brew Crew shopping Grinke's expiring deal, if they had resigned Fielder, who's to say that they wouldn't have kept it together for one last go?

[shesgotlegs]

Here's a thought for the conspiracy theory nuts...

Not that it DID affect anything...the Tigers would have given him big money once they lost Victor Martinez...but if Prince Fielder was seriously considering the Brewers to return...how much do you think this affected him?

I mean it's not like the Brewers are chopped liver next year.  Braun and Fielder are still a very good 1-2 punch, and they still have one of the best pitching staffs in their division, if not the best.  None of the other teams in their division are going to be in a position to do all that well...the Cards lost Pujols, the Cubs and Astros are a hot mess, and the Pirates likely aren't there yet, and I have no idea if I buy the Reds or not based on their up and down last two years...I mean Votto is legit, and Phillips is good, but the teams been inconsistent.  I think, at least this year, the NL Central was up for grabs between whomever of the Brewers/Reds/Cards could pull it together quickest.  And while there's rumors of the Brew Crew shopping Grinke's expiring deal, if they had resigned Fielder, who's to say that they wouldn't have kept it together for one last go?

Had the whole Braun scandal not gone down, Fielder would still be gone.  His payday had finally come, and unfortunately the Brewers couldn't give him the sort of contract and salary that others could. 

[piperspitt]

I think the Brew crew had a shot at a one year deal if the Tigers didn't lose Martinez for the season. There was surprisingly little interest in Fielder.

[JDub]

I get the arguments and everything. And I wasn't trying to imply Braun did or didn't do it. It's just that there's so many unanswered questions that it's not resolved in my mind.

Though to be fair, I'll probably never get the answers I want. I'm gonna just move on.

I agree. I was just saying like you said some are saying he got off just because of a "legal technicality", well that's a pretty big technicality. It wasn't something small like he sent it out 4 minutes late, he kept it for almost two days. Most of those people see it as 100% fact that he had a positive test but just got off for that reason, they don't see it as it's possible that the test was either tampered with or not even his. That's why he got cleared. Heck it's possible that the test wasn't tampered with just faulty (albeit a .000000001% chance) but there is no way to prove that. There is a lot we don't know but to me it just seems like way too much shadiness in the whole process to think that for 100% certain that the ONE time a guy like Ryan Braun tested positive all this stuff happened. He just so happened to luck out that the collector took it home over the weekend, and lucked out MLB wouldn't let him take a DNA test which would have been the only way to 100% prove it was or wasn't his sample. Now I'm not saying he is innocent it's just with what we know I have some doubts about the so called positive test was his.

The biggest problem I have though is the whole process of the appeal and MLBs opinion in the matter. If they did believe that the sample could have been tampered with why not try to prove it was or wasn't during the appeal? Maybe they don't have the resources or time to do something like that, I mean it's not a legal trial in front of a judge or something, so I guess I understand why just the possibility of tampering could have gotten him off the hook. But why not do something about it now if possible? Bruan said he couldn't say much because of possible investigations or future legal action so it looks like they might be looking into if the collector did tamper or switch the sample but why wouldn't MLB want to take action and find out as well? So the guy who supposedly took something and tested positive is going to look into that the test was tampered with to prove it wasn't, which would prove that he has been lying the whole time but MLB who thinks he should be suspended isn't? They seem to be so dead set on nailing Bruan to the wall but don't want to possibly look into if this guy did do something. If Braun is or isn't innocent don't you think MLB would want to look into this matter instead of blindly supporting the guy for "following the correct protocol" when it's pretty clear that he didn't (not that anyone at MLB knows what "following the correct protocol" means because they are the ones who leaked out all this info  when it shouldn't have been)? Say Braun is innocent, wouldn't they want to look into this guy to protect their player and see what went wrong with and how to improve their testing policy? Because if they do find out this guy did something they are going to look really bad for disagreeing with the ruling. And say Braun really did take something, wouldn't they want to try to prove as much as they could that the collector didn't tamper or switch the sample so they could say "hey you did really cheat"? Either way it's pretty clear the entire time and still even now MLB had no intentions of trying to find out what really did or didn't happen.

[Queensryche]

The reason why MLB disagrees with the opinion and is considering suing in federal court is because they were trying to follow World Anti-Doping Association guidelines, and under those guidelines, chain of possession was followed. Also under WADA protocol, when someone challenges a result, they have to challenge the result of the test. When I saw it was overturned, I thought that Braun had proven the results were faulty or that there was a clear explanation. After reading and seeing there wasn't, I considered it to be a technicality, considering he never challenged the results of the test itself.

Also, from what I understand, the labels and tape used on the vials would've left behind adhesive if it was tampered with. So if it was tampered with, the lab would've known immediately.

Either way, a cloud hangs over this case. I can't say he did take something (whether intentionally or inadvertently), but I can't say he didn't either.

[piperspitt]

It's a case where everybody loses because of the breech of confidentiality. It could have been worse for both sides though.

Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.