Possible Errata

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• (August 06, 2008, 10:47:20 PM)

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JaysonPhenix
creed313ster
Homeless
Turd Ferguson
Phenominal1

[CreedP]

There's a few things that really should be added to the FAQ, like the errata on John Cena's Corner (yes, it is a Corner card...), and a couple small notes.  But there's a few who would like to see small balancing errata added to a few things.  Some feel that Revo 3's Death-Defying Maniac would be better if it resolved to the Ring area when overturned (with the other effect as conditional to having 3 ECW Originals in the Ring).

Seriously now guys (no "I hate Piper therefore he should be errata'd!" silliness, please) - if you could make changes that were strictly for the betterment of the game, what would you do?  For example, people have suggested removing the errata from Back Body Drop TB and simply adding errata to R-Full Nelson Slam, such as 'You may overturn 4 cards to play this card from Ringside' to keep the 'balls' decks in check.

What say you, Raw Deal players?

CREED

[MediumSexy]

I agree on the point of "Revo Full Nelson Slam" and "Back Body Drop (tb)". I don't really see any problems other than those right off, as far as errata for game balance goes.

[CreedP]

Another idea worth mentioning is Tommy Dreamer - I'm thinking if we broke from the usual wording template and made it "You may pick up 1 Extreme by overturning 3 cards", perhaps he wouldn't be so strong in Revolution format and a little more balanced, since he would be better in late game after taking a beating.  Something else to discuss...

CREED

[Whitescorpion]

Well, certain other cards that were used in a way that was not meant to be played. Back body drop is pretty much there to encourage people to play more set-ups (which were more or less under played).

I actually wish that elbow to the face got the templating that second solution got, so that it can reverse printed 2D or lesser maneuvers. then again, that would make sustain damage and Brahma bull suck.

The full nelson slam example is indeed a good one.

[HXCDisciple]

I actually wish that elbow to the face got the templating that second solution got, so that it can reverse printed 2D or lesser maneuvers. then again, that would make sustain damage and Brahma bull suck.

I thought you could do that anyhow?  I think I missed something here.

[CreedP]

If I take a Double Underhook Back Breaker (7D) and add +1D from something (Old School Beatings, for example), you can't reverse with Elbow.  He's saying if it reversed PRINTED 1-7D, so modifications don't matter, he'd like it better.  Unfortunately, that's a MAJOR game change and would completely phase out the usefulness of cards like OSB, ECW Title, Benoit's ability, and so on.

The idea isn't to overhaul the entire game, but rather to fine-tune a few things that seem a little TOO good...

CREED

[Whitescorpion]

If I take a Double Underhook Back Breaker (7D) and add +1D from something (Old School Beatings, for example), you can't reverse with Elbow.  He's saying if it reversed PRINTED 1-7D, so modifications don't matter, he'd like it better.  Unfortunately, that's a MAJOR game change and would completely phase out the usefulness of cards like OSB, ECW Title, Benoit's ability, and so on.

The idea isn't to overhaul the entire game, but rather to fine-tune a few things that seem a little TOO good...

CREED

yes, I know it's a little de-balancing. But it was one of the few things they did right in Revo actually. Because the whole boosting maneuver damage thing got old pretty fast.

[CreedP]

Right - but look at the Revo cores from Set 1.  Damage boosting has never mattered - you can either reverse something based on the card itself or you can't.  So a card like Second Solution fits like a glove.  Elbow, on the other hand, has been a staple of RDC since day 1.. and guys like Benoit (and cards like I mentioned in the earlier post) are built around the understanding that its about 'total damage', not printed damage (same applies to Clumsy, Unexpected, Quick Reflexes, Hogan's 24 Inch Pythons, etc).

Anywho - moving on... what else is worth thinking about?

CREED

[Antigoth]

Re: BBD

If nothing else, would it be possible that for RDC format, the card works as written?

[CRASHER]

I'd love to see the cards you can scoop from ringside (Shoot headlock, Full Nelson Slam, ICBRTR, maybe even Steel Chain Shot, etc) all read "Once per turn" for their back to hand effects... it would certainly keep the spirit of the card there (pay cost, get back to hand, play move) and it would help slow down the balls concept as well

and then we can leave BBD-TB back the old way it was!

[CreedP]

Re: BBD
If nothing else, would it be possible that for RDC format, the card works as written?

I'm really in favor of having the errata outright removed, but I'm sure even the RDE guys would agree that we shouldn't just open the door to 'balls' decks all over again.  R-FNS seems to be pretty key, and I could swear there was some talk about adding text to Tech Drop Kick along the lines of 'You can't play an Action titled Technical Drop Kick for the remainder of the turn'.  But I didn't want to give people all the ideas and have them just say yes or no, I was hoping for a good discussion and different ideas. 

Mr. Crasher, the problem becomes a bookkeeping issue - if I have 3 copies of R-FNS, Shoot Headlock, SCS-tb, etc... how do you determine which one I picked up once it has gone to my hand, shuffled into my deck, etc?  It's too difficult to track, unfortunately.  That's why I'm hoping to get some ideas on more direct ways to slow the problematic themes down.  (or just drop 'em in a Cell / play Rattlesnake, heh)

CREED

[Antigoth]

Re: BBD
If nothing else, would it be possible that for RDC format, the card works as written?

I'm really in favor of having the errata outright removed, but I'm sure even the RDE guys would agree that we shouldn't just open the door to 'balls' decks all over again.  R-FNS seems to be pretty key, and I could swear there was some talk about adding text to Tech Drop Kick along the lines of 'You can't play an Action titled Technical Drop Kick for the remainder of the turn'.  But I didn't want to give people all the ideas and have them just say yes or no, I was hoping for a good discussion and different ideas. 

Does balls really exist in RDC?

[CRASHER]

I'm really in favor of having the errata outright removed, but I'm sure even the RDE guys would agree that we shouldn't just open the door to 'balls' decks all over again.  R-FNS seems to be pretty key, and I could swear there was some talk about adding text to Tech Drop Kick along the lines of 'You can't play an Action titled Technical Drop Kick for the remainder of the turn'.  But I didn't want to give people all the ideas and have them just say yes or no, I was hoping for a good discussion and different ideas. 

Mr. Crasher, the problem becomes a bookkeeping issue - if I have 3 copies of R-FNS, Shoot Headlock, SCS-tb, etc... how do you determine which one I picked up once it has gone to my hand, shuffled into my deck, etc?  It's too difficult to track, unfortunately.  That's why I'm hoping to get some ideas on more direct ways to slow the problematic themes down.  (or just drop 'em in a Cell / play Rattlesnake, heh)

CREED

3 in the ringside pile... 3 times a turn, I know it kinda over-simplifies it, but something along that level of thinking would do it too (tech drop kick would give you a headache trying to keep track  )

the playing base now is VASTLY smaller then it was a year ago and will only decrease in size... sometimes simple is good

and I guess if they can load up the ringside pile with the cards they want you can still cause some havoc in milling 12 for R-FNS, then shoot headlocks/ICRBTR silliness as well

just trying to make the thing just less danged dirty ya know?

[HXCDisciple]

If I take a Double Underhook Back Breaker (7D) and add +1D from something (Old School Beatings, for example), you can't reverse with Elbow.  He's saying if it reversed PRINTED 1-7D, so modifications don't matter, he'd like it better.  Unfortunately, that's a MAJOR game change and would completely phase out the usefulness of cards like OSB, ECW Title, Benoit's ability, and so on.

The idea isn't to overhaul the entire game, but rather to fine-tune a few things that seem a little TOO good...

CREED

Ah, yes, duh.

Yeah, it would be nice...if you're the defender.  As the attacker, however, that gets their reversals around any and all damage additions you have, and that could get annoying very quickly.

[MediumSexy]

One card I'd like to see the erratta REMOVED from is "Not According to the Fine Print"... That card used to be halfway decent, until it was changed (erratta'ed) from its original concept. It's bugged me for years now. lol

[Daeva]

One card I'd like to see the erratta REMOVED from is "Not According to the Fine Print"... That card used to be halfway decent, until it was changed (erratta'ed) from its original concept. It's bugged me for years now. lol

Just to be clear, you want the card to reverse anything irreversible (like it does already) as well as reverse anything with "cannot be reversed" in the text (Pump Kick, For the Love of the Game, Running Lariat, <R> Whoop-A&% Attitude, Beating the Odds, etc, etc)?

[HalfBadger]

I say leave Elbow to the Face as is. It's been the staple CARD of the game, let alone reversal, the whole game revolves around Elbow working the way it does. If you change Elbow slightly, you totally change the game, not just a little tweak. Every maneuver, action and reversal would be changed.

I think it'd best to not try to change older cards, as newer cards have been created/playtested with those cards working the way they do, a la the Fortitude plunging problems, when that was logically changed.

Fine Print should stay. Who knows what the initial intent was (I believe it was suppose to work as it does now) and many cards from the earlier sets were worded badly and the erratas are there for logical reasons.

I think some of these ideas are interesting, but I what Creed wants is more logical objective big picture tweaks. Giving solid secure reasons for your tweaks would be helpful for this process.

For (a weak) example Allowing BoD to play Pump Kick. The main reason they were restricted from playing it was, because of the strong combo with Defensive Posture, which isn't a threat anymore. As well as it unnecessarily hinders Taker and Kane in tag teams matches...

[superradjoe]

I know there's really nothing that can be done about it but I still think the card Road to Victory is extremely unnecessary (or was until they printed a ridiculous amount of broken midmatch stuff afterwards because it's obviously going to be roaded at least once)

[CreedP]

To resurrect this thread, as I plan to finally get to this during this weekend, we're looking to:

Remove the errata from Back Body Drop TB
Add errata to <R> Full Nelson Slam (burn 4 to PLAY it)
Add errata to <R> Death-Defying Maniac (it goes to the Ring when it reverses regardless)

Am I forgetting anything?

CREED

[Antigoth]

Nope... sounds good to me.

[dilbert505]

I don't know that it needs errata, but you did mention Tommy Dreamer, Creed. Would it make sense to word that ability as "Pick up 1 Extreme from your Ringside Pile: Overturn 3 cards", if you're trying to cut down on the instant deck-to-RSP phenomenon? That sticks to the Revo template that the card probably should stick to, given that it is Revo, without requiring a tormented syntax.

[CreedP]

-snaps-  Almost forgot, thank you.  I thought about making it 'twice per turn', but once should probably do it.

CREED

[aochv1]

Actually I would also like an erratta to Live-Fast Fight Hard[R] too!

Due to the fact that this card can searched easily by cards by One for the Money etc + First Turn Colossal Is Bad Lol!

I would like to errata the card such as you can only play this card if your opponent's fortitude is at least 5 higher than yours(add it to the requirement?)

What do you guys think?

[neuromancer]

Well, actually it is not that bad. You can simply reverse <r>one for the money. Enough with your thrash talk (tb), coach says and alot more.

Furthermore, if you play one for the money, then live fast fight hard, the third card can be reversed by graceful as cow on ice.

[neuromancer]

First Turn Colossal Is Bad Lol!
 

sorry for the double post, but if you think first turn colossal is bad, why not errata LAISE first?