Is Goldberg Playable?

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swankythegreat
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[Thrawn]

With pre-match cards out there like Denville and There Is No Escape in the No Way Out Set, has Goldberg been a viable superstar in any environment since then?

[JaysonPhenix]

why does no escape hurt him?

[Thrawn]

Oh, and don't forget Go for the Cover.

I know that back in the day Backstage Politics crushed RTC, but it still didn't seem like the instant win that many of these cards are against Goldberg.

[Thrawn]

why does no escape hurt him?

There Is No Escape
Pre-match Feud
All players' maneuvers cannot be reversed by non-Superstar-specific hybrid Reversal cards. Your maneuvers also cannot be reversed from your opponent's Backlash deck.
Your maneuvers are +2 Stun Value.
You cannot play non-unique maneuvers not titled Arm Bar, Arm Bar Takedown, Arm Drag, Atomic Drop, Belly to Back Suplex, Belly to Belly Suplex, Body Slam, Chop, Clothesline, Collar & Elbow Lockup, Drop Kick, Haymaker, Head Butt, Hip Toss, Press Slam, Punch, Roundhouse Punch, Russian Leg Sweep, Snap Mare, Vertical Suplex, Wrist Lock, Backhand Slap, Drop Toe Hold, Elbow Drop, Foot Stomp, or Hammerlock. 
Permanent
F: 0      D: 0


Its yet another card to get around hybrid reversals.  Basically, his only reversal power comes from his discard ability, and I just don't see 3 discard being sustainable.

[JaysonPhenix]

his R4 card allows him to play non hybrid reversals

[BigPimpin]

With the inclusion of R4, yes, he is very viable.  His backstage card gives him the ability to reverse as normal and, in theory, a bigger, better finishing maneuver.

Before R4, he was middle of the pack.  Dead against Andre, dead against Kennedy, more or less dead vs. Test/Test Enforcer, hurting vs. other Legends, and Denville cleaned him out if anyone was using it.

[BigJohnStudd]

I think his ability is kinda junk when you look at the R4-R5 format. Lots of uniques and maneuvers that are only reversable from certian zones and lots of multis... I would put him at mit tier at best. playable in casual format? Yes. Any tournament structure? Go for another choice......

[CreedP]

Are you sure you read his new card, Studd? 

He can pack the same reversals (Manager, Get the F Out, Great to be Back Here In...) but he'll be able to discard those to deal with, say, a <R> Batista deck running The Revolution Will Not Be Verified, or a Smackdown deck with Vickie's protection.

I don't think he's the strongest, most obvious option of course, but he should be quite playable now... since that was the intention all along. 

CREED

[JaysonPhenix]

while he is locked mostly into being heel for Best Laid Plans or BASH to get his hand back up to normal starting size, destroying someone's pre is still rather good and like Creed said, being able to stop someone's wave of <R> moves is still rather good

[BigPimpin]

What they all said. 

The existance of lots of viable unique moves hurts Goldie.  But he's better equipped to deal with non-unique Revo moves (still a somewhat viable offensive attack) than most people, and he's got the ability to pack reversals for Unique moves.

And while his pre-match screwing isn't what it used to be, Best Laid Plans & SCS are like textbook moves for him.

[BigJohnStudd]

Are you sure you read his new card, Studd?  

He can pack the same reversals (Manager, Get the F Out, Great to be Back Here In...) but he'll be able to discard those to deal with, say, a <R> Batista deck running The Revolution Will Not Be Verified, or a Smackdown deck with Vickie's protection.

I don't think he's the strongest, most obvious option of course, but he should be quite playable now... since that was the intention all along.  

CREED

oh yeah I read it entirely creed, but his discard ability STILL only reverses non uniques maneuvers that could be normaly reversed from backstage area. argueable staple cards like clutch, mod clutch, german suplex, ATL, and things modified (over the ropes) still are not reversed by goldies ability. Lone Warrior maikes him MUCH more viable still, but he is nowhere near top tier. In the end he is playable yes but not nearly top tier, which was my inital point.

and yes I also read where he gets one random edge logo'd spear.....

[Daeva]

So how does Goldberg struggle more against those hard-to-touch things than any other deck that has to rely on Great to be Back or hybrid reversals? What am I missing here?

[Thrawn]

Sounds like without Rev4, he's toast, which is pretty much what I was getting.  The group I'm playing with do straight classic as far as card pools.  At least I'll only have to see Denville once every few months, but those weeks look like auto-losses.

[JaysonPhenix]

Generally if you go heel you have strangle hold TB to stop clutches at least and if you're lucky you can use pet coon and least that hybrid that reverses smackdown cards.  and silent but violent in the midmatch for germans

[MediumSexy]

Goldberg is still good in the non Virtual formats!!!

As far as Denville goes If everyone knows you are playing Goldberg and wants to run Denville (effectively) they will have to:

a) Play someone with a higher SSV than you. (in which case you can run non hybrid maneuvers and have them kiss your arse and lose horribly anyway - Remember in Raw Deal Classic format you don't have the R1-R3 Trademarks/Antics to worry about, and in Raw Deal Classic format itself you don't have the R4/WCW Uniques to worry about.)

and

b) Waste a Pre-match slot in their deck vs just one (possible) deck out of the whole field. It's fair to say depending on # of players (unless it's a Round Robin event) they likely won't even face you.

[Thrawn]

German Suplex...the card that brought back Tazz.  It makes for a very nasty opening, well before most midmatches can counter.

I only wish it was chain so I could fit it with Angle.

[JaysonPhenix]

well its a bad matchup yeah, but if you play you're pre right tazz has nothing but a 5 handsize or so.  and at that point, do something that he reveals his hand so you know whether to throw a spear or a jackhammer

[Thrawn]

Goldberg is still good in the non Virtual formats!!!

As far as Denville goes If everyone knows you are playing Goldberg and wants to run Denville (effectively) they will have to:

a) Play someone with a higher SSV than you. (in which case you can run non hybrid maneuvers and have them kiss your arse and lose horribly anyway - Remember in Raw Deal Classic format you don't have the R1-R3 Trademarks/Antics to worry about, and in Raw Deal Classic format itself you don't have the R4/WCW Uniques to worry about.)

and

b) Waste a Pre-match slot in their deck vs just one (possible) deck out of the whole field. It's fair to say depending on # of players (unless it's a Round Robin event) they likely won't even face you.

a) I couldn't even tell you what R1-R3 Trademarks/Antics really are.  I and everyone I played with bailed by then.  We all thought it was a terrible direction for the game.

b) With the format we've been playing in, I won't be seeing Denville for another 6 weeks, but then the whole tournament will be played as if everyone had Denville.  I think Goldberg will be a loss for me that week.

Someone is running There is no Escape as well, and I've seen at least 2 go for the cover's in decks recently.

[MediumSexy]

b) With the format we've been playing in, I won't be seeing Denville for another 6 weeks, but then the whole tournament will be played as if everyone had Denville.  I think Goldberg will be a loss for me that week.

Just build Goldberg so you won't lose to Denville that week. Less "x/Reversal" hybrids, more non-hybrid Maneuvers/Actions (I Can't Be Reading This Right and Steel Chain Shot (tb) come to mind. Load up with German Suplex (tb), Atomic Lariat, etc.

<or>

Just remove stuff to get you down to the limit where you won't lose, and use cards like "Blindsided by the Dangerous Divas", "McMahon Family Values", "Krystal: Broadcast Beauty" (etc) to get the cards back. Or better yet, use Denville to your advantage and go for the ridiculousness that is "Over the Ropes"

lol

[JaysonPhenix]

Someone is running There is no Escape as well, and I've seen at least 2 go for the cover's in decks recently.

Not on my Broadcast TB + road to victory solves your problem there

"The real problem is not whether machines think, but whether men do." - B.F. Skinner